Check out the following article;
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Canada+endangered+historic+buildings/1768386/story.html
Should this site be saved? over the years I have heard many complaints about the old Mine site at the east end of the golf course. Designated an historical site years ago, and then no dollars provided to preserve it. My fear is that the same happens in Coleman, in these economic times will either the Feds or the Province throw in the necessary dollars to make these into operating functional historical sites or will they just throw a chain link fence around them and hope some day a rich benefactor comes in to save the site.
Curious to see what people think?
42 comments:
The stone buildings are in horrible condition and will take literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. The blue tin buildings were built in 1968, and if they are historic, half the people walking around this area are walking relics. Let's be serious here, buildings have a lifespan and most of these examples have out lived theirs. With the older population of the area putting the kybosh on re-opening the place a few years back, it hardly says that it is a place that many hold dear to their hearts. While Coal mining is the thing around here, it's not exactly a rarity in North America. and not exactly something that attracts tourists to the extent that we would all like. It seems to me that we already have a tourist attraction with that mountain that kind of fell down over there.
The problem is the amount of pollution in the area and unfortunately, a good portion is under those buildings
It kind of makes no sense at all to be pushing coal mining history when the local museum is as unpopular as it is. The underground mine is a good thing because it is an attraction. The only thing that will make the Coleman Collieries popular is if you run a steam train through the middle of it. Wonder where we could find one of those damn things?
RFA
With the hectic pace that this place moves at, theres absolutely no need to concern ourselves with that eyesore anyways. The fence is already there, lets just sit back and look at those glorious days gone by and let time swallow up that lovely old blue tipple. Maybe someday Charlton Heston can ride up on a horse with a monkey and ask himself what the hell that thing used to be...
Nobody is coming to save the day here, we can fund raise and beg the government for cash like we do with everthing else. Makes you feel so proud doesn't it? to be self sufficiant like we are? A community that is based on what scraps someone else can or will give us? Kind of a third world nation approach to survival. Where are the true entreprenuers of this area? Afraid to move to fast and hurt themselves falling off their wallets? Take those buildings down and make the place look respectful instead of an industrial wasteland filled with memories of unemployment and suffering and embrace the future. The place needs to fill up with new faces and get rid of that old b.s. attitude that so many people are fixated on like "when I go downtown, I don't recognize anyone" or even better "I was born here, so it gives me the right". Move on and "mature" like the rest of the world, instead of living in the past.
RFA
Take some photos for the museum and then bring in the bulldozers. Accept it folks -- the coal mine relics in Coleman and Blairmore are eyesores. Unfortunately many locals have been looking at them for so long that they don't see it. However, it is obvious to just about anyone else. Put yourself in the position of someone thinking of investing in this area -- to them, the mining facilities are a blight and a deterent to investment.
Ask any kid what they think of those buildings and they will tell you flat out "whatever..." Even with an interpreter telling stories about what happened there, it cannot be made interesting. Even our own schools don't take our kids on field trips to our own museums or interpretive center because of the pathetic way they are operated and how much they charge. Let's do something for the young people of the 'Pass for once instead of giving ourselves a pat on the back for preserving some old junk nobody cares about. If money is going to be spent, spend it on a REC CENTER! A rec center is something that makes people happy inside and out, whereas crusty old buildings are depressing and sad.
Take a picture, then demolish them.
Is this a case of the old locals wanting to hang on to the past. And the new "weekenders" wanting to create their "Crowsnest Pass"
What is really interesting, I have people that live in that area and have all their lifes, telling me that its time for the old buildings to go. Then people that are new to the area that want to hang on to the historical value.
The comments I found really interesting were from the first Anonymous.
Is that post above about weekenders? If it is please grow up, if you are against weekenders you should have bought up all the properties yourself. We all know you couldn't afford that though... hard to explain the fund-raising to the government!
Crowsnest Pass created by week-enders..., Hmmmm not a bad idea, at least something might happen here instead of grandfathering old ideas on everyone and forcing us to look at that enviromental hellscape.
"The old locals", as you put it are the voices responsible for many of our younger middle age population not having a job there to begin with. Luxcor wanted to re-open the place and our wisdom filled "old locals" stopped that from happening. The people that are pushing to have this place stay are folks that are meloncholy for days gone by in which they had little or no involvement to begin with. If you think that the tipple in Coleman defines the area, I take it you don't have much to talk about.
I say take them down, we can make a party out of it and the outhouses are practically there already. Do it on the Heritage weekend and have a fireworks show. Lots of parking and space for hotdog carts!
Nothings going to be happening for a long time as the person that is wheeling and dealing on the place is going to be up to his arse in legal problems as soon as he signs on the dotted line anyways. The whole news release is a sham and tactics plainly put forward by someone trying to tell this "new" perspective owner what he can and cannot do. Luxcor is still going to be holding onto that dead horse for years to come and thats all there is to it.
As I read in the Pass Herald written by Bob Franz, he referred to the tipple as the "Largest and most historically pertinant landmark in the Municipality of the Crowsnest Pass"... Has Bob gone off the deep end? So many people in this area have somehow managed to talk themselves into being an integral piece of the local history that they cannot bear the thought that something that they have touched is not worth anything. Put plainly, it is not a piece of history, it is an old tin building with a bunch of folks who's only claim to fame is having something to do with it. Every grain town had an elevator... so what. Every coal town had a tipple, big deal! Does this mean that the smelly old sulfer plant out west of town should be an interpretive center in 20 years? I'll bet if the town of Turner Valley had the option to have that pig sty of a gas plant taken out with no sign of it left that they would party in the streets. Get over yourself Bob!
Even China doesn't want the scrap iron from it, get rid of it.
I think it's kind of a shame to have something around that reminds me about things that ended thirty years ago. If it was of interest to anyone, I'm sure we would have been doing something about it years ago. As it sits, even the vandals don't bother with it because it's not worth the trouble. Why not use that nice piece of land for something beautiful instead of an homage to a business that was only open for 12 years. before it was a filthy old wooden structure that was replaced with this blue one that was supposed to keep our town cleaner and let me tell you, it didn't. Please tear that monstrosity down and clean up the land.
The water that runs out of the place that has all that strange looking orange and red residue is what I believe should be concerning everyone.
As the place slowly deteriorates to the point that it will be impossible to clean it up is what should be concerning everyone downstream of it.
It's ugly, dirty and a hazard that no one wants to be taking responsability for and the people that are intent on keeping it cannot pull themselves out of a past that is not interesting to anyone but themselves. For the sake of the Crowsnest Pass, I only hope that they are torn down once and for all. They are of no benefit to anyone.
The town of Coleman has always amazed me that it has not been leveled yet. there are only 3 buildings that I can think of that are made of brick and all the rest are wood with, in some cases, inches of coal dust in the crawl areas. A strong west wind and a spark is all it takes to burn down an entire city block in Lethbridge. How have we managed to be so lucky? The real problem with it is when they do finally go, I doubt that they will be rebuilt because financially it would not be worth their replacement. Should have been working on revitalization years ago and stuck with it because the buildings that are there are really not worth restoring. As for the tipple, the best thing for Coleman is to have them taken down, if you want to see buildings like that, go to Denver Colorado, there are hundreds of them, abandoned and far more interesting looking than that one of ours, it's not old anyways. Tear it down and start looking toward tomorrow instead of in the past.
If we let this argument fall into the publics hands, we will have another center situation to contend with. If there is anyone in the area that could make a call on this, I think we will all be further ahead instead of going into a long drawn out fiasco. I think we should turn that "war dog" (meant in a good way) John Prince on this and get the mess cleared up before it gets out of hand!
Well I am new to the area (Two years) and have zero interest in keeping these old run down building. They are nothing but an eye sore.
We don't need a war dog, we need a bull dozer.
Sooner or later the "weekender" wins so why not take a step in a new direction instead of smothering ourselves in self pity dreaming about days gone by. If you think about it, this area can only benefit by having new ideas put towards it. The "dreaded Weekender" is not about total devastation, they are about getting away from urban crazy. So listen to them, they are actually the new heart and soul of the area and not the bitter "I was F'N born here" type that in my 62 years am certainly getting sick and tired and bored of. Does everyone hate the Stones Throw? The Cinnamon Bear? How about all the other stores that were opened by people who were not originally from here? Of course not, I see locals in all these places all the time, so I guess change isn't a bad thing after all is it? Let's use the destruction of those cruddy old buildings as a step in a positive direction and not listen to some bitter old pill who manages to get media coverage and does't even live here himself. Or better yet, Ol' Bob can buy the old craphole himself and sit out there and daydream that it's 1968 all over again. After all, weren't the late 60's just a gem when it comes to history?
I think that it should be clearly defined what exactly should be torn down. If there are environmental issues that affect the older buildings, we will just have to admit to ourselves that they have to go whether we like it or not. If it is just to get rid of that metal tipple, really it should go anyways, the loadout tower is also horrible and the storage bin is just plain dangerous. But knowing what part of the world we live in and the people that are in charge of local history, common sense will not be what reigns, after all, you can go and visit our historic printing press in Pincher Creek or our original ski lodge at September Annes antiques outside Pincher or anything else we had of value, as long as your not looking for it here, that is.
Interesting that so many opinions that seem to state the same answer tend to go beyond the original question. One doesn't have to blow very much dust off this area to expose what is hidden beneath do they? Seems like a lot of anxiety is easily released with even the slightest notion of something being removed, even if it is worthless.
RFA
I am a local born and raised, this issue along with most issues is NOT a local against weekender issue.the silent majority would say to clean up that eyesore along with many other eyesores in the CNP.We(weekenders and locals)are looking to move forward,not to be held back by the past.Unfortunatly there are a few who will fight and cry and make a lot of noise to save old relics.We need the majority in the CNP to stand up and be heard.This comment section seems to be spot on.
Last comment, very well said I am a strong beliver that there are many good people in the Crowsnest Pass. I have respect for good people no matter how long they have been here. Myself I have been slammed in the past because I have "only" been here for 26 years. In my opinion far to often it is the position of the very vocal minority interest groups, that is taken by some people to be the position of the majority.
I guess in the chess game of the CNP, no matter what you and I feel about the place, it's our local Federales that have final say about the situation anyways.
"CRUSH THE RUST"
So, let's name some names and get this out in the open once and for all or shall we just continue to live a life of complacency.
Yeah, thats kind of what I thought the response would be. Well enjoy your view, because until the CNP comes to terms with what it's going to take to get things going here, nothings going to be happening for at least 10 years, or until "whomever" retires. And if it works out the same as the last supposed retiree, that person will be pulling strings for years after. As long as you can be comfortable saying to yourself, Will my health hold out long enough to see change? everthing will be just fine.
I was asked if I had seen this blog concerning the old tipple area and if I had anything to say about it. First off, the film that we worked on last year for National Geographic has turned out to be of interest to it's producers and they have decided to make a continuing story about some of the technology that the Nazi's had come up with in WWII.
It's very exciting for us and the old buildings at the tipple yard are one of the locations that they wanted to scope out.
However, if there is going to be problems with using it, one of the first lessons that I learned about the film business was "the show will go on with or without you", so if these locations don't work out, we'll find someplace else no problem. I'm not familier with anything that is quite like the tipple yard in the 'Pass, but I have seen some in BC.
As for what I think about the buildings, a few of them are pretty cool, but I used to work at a place a lot like the tipple and the loadout buildings, and personally, they don't hold any value to me. As for film purposes, asides from them being located in the mountains, there are literally hundreds of sites similar to them and mountains can be added with CGI, so it's not really an issue.
Also, I would like to add that we are involved with a business that revolves around a bowl of popcorn and a glass of Coke, hardly a business that should influence an entire community and it's future plans.
Regards,
Dan Stoddart
The big question of the day is: When will the Mayor and councillor Taje step down for their direct involvement with Bridgecreek? After the todays piece by QR77 exposed these people for what everyone with an ounce of smarts knew all along, seems that this is twice that these two gents have dropped the bag (Remember how they and "third" one "Larry" said the were going to step down with the loss of the vote on the center?). Should someone tell them that they did the wrong thing or will we just leave it up to them to figure it out for themselves? As for the Tipple, that things not going anywhere, but what a great topic. Very entertaining!
RFA
"I always knew this day would come.".......Bernie Maddoff
As a newcomer to the Pass, I have a couple of questions. In the first comment, the person says that some of the buildings at the colliery were built in '68. When were the earliest buildings on that site built? When were the coke ovens built? When did that facility shut down for good?
I like the idea of putting the much needed rec centre there. And clean up the land to the east and make it a nice, safe off-leash dog park. And while we're at it, make it so that the public can easily access the river along there.
I recall hearing something about the feds putting $14 million dollars into a rec centre in (I think) Summerside, PEI. So why not here???? Why not?????
If I may, I am going to take this chance to soap box about what it takes to promote tourism in a place like the CNP...
1: Do not take the guidence of retired Government people. they know nothing of retail, only tax collection and how to spend it. Creativity is lost amongs bureaucrats.
2: We do not boost our prices on everything simply because an event comes to the area for a few days. Example: the price of bread has gone up in the CNP 20 to 75%. The Idea is to have people come here and not be chased away by screwing them over. Extra foods and Sobey's are very bad for doing this. They are not convienience stores, they are staples of the community.
3: You do not just hang a sign on whatever you have to display saying "this is what it used to be". You make the display interactive so people can see what it is now.
4: If you must have kiosks put up in all your areas of interest, have local contractors do it so you can feed them, not have someone donate everything like what happend with NIT. A happy community is one that can survive by supporting itself.
5: Leaving the destiny of a decrepit industrial site up to a group of individuals of whom believe that they hold the communities better interests in mind is a huge mistake unless they actually ask the community what it wants.
RFA
If the hospital was voted on and came back that it should be torn down, then why would the tipple be spared? Even the hospital has more historical value than it has. It was built in the 40's and the tipple in the late 60's.
I saw Fred Bradley on Global this week and he was talking about keeping the buildings standing at the old Tipple yards in Coleman.
Shame on you Fred for doing what you are. Those buildings are not Roman relics. They are a bunch of ugly steel structures that represent a dead industry for our town. There is absolutely no historical value to them what so ever, and if there were we would know about it already. The people who worked there did not do anything that any laborer anywhere else didn't do, so just let it go!
Unless you are doing this for yourself or to justify some more funding from the government (which is what this place should be trying to get away from doing) please stop because it's an embarrassment.
Makes us look like we are in a perpetual state of unemplyment insurance or welfare cases. Shame, shame Fred.
Stop holding us back and let us move toward a future that will let us support ourselves, not some awfull excuse for a museum run by incompetents that no-one is interested in.
I agree with the last statement, the more that we celebrate that tipple, the longer we stay living in the past. The old hospital seems to be still standing for what really seems to be the same reason. All I think about when I go by that place was the way it used to stink so bad inside and when I go by the tipple, how dirty it used to make our town. Fred argued that the tipple was then what Fort Macmurray is now. Well, I sure hope that 30 years after they close down the operations up there that they clean it up like what should happen here, it's just a mess. I don't even want to live here anymore because of how delapidated it is now, and half the time Fred's not here either, he's off globe trotting enjoying the view somewhere else. Why does he want to save the old junk heaps so badly? they are not something of value, they are just messy scrapyards. I have never seen anyone purposly stop at those places unless they were looking to steal something or vandalize them.
Back in the early 80's I had the pleasure of working at one of the tipple's over in the Elk Valley. It was not a very interesting place to visit. I just can't imagine a lot of tourists stopping in to see the our 40 year old Tipple.
We presently have, what I believe to be a great little museum. It gets about 3000 visitors a year. It runs on a $120,000 a year budget. Eighty percent of that coming from government grants from all levels, and fund raising.
What would it cost a year to run the tipple and how, and who would raise the fuunds each year?
Keep in mind every group here is struggling to find volunteers.
That's because of the expense of living here Dean, just take a look at how many garage sales and for sale signs on houses there is now. Or even better, how most of those are senior citizens that are eating over priced food from the only places that sell it here at grossly jacked up prices.
Town council is just going to have to face it that they will have to start serious chopping and quit screwing around or soon the only people left will be weekenders and members of our council.
Unless you work at only 6 employers in this valley, you will be starved out unless you were independantly wealthy to begin with.
So unless I'm mistaken, the museum here is responsible for raising only $24,000.00 of it's $120,000.00 budget ...and that is considered a success? The rest is taken in with a silent auction and good old fashion begging?
The last time I walked into the place, they were trying to sell knitted winter hats shaped like monkey's in the middle of summer.
If the facility was run by people who had the ability to work on week-ends, it would make money. Putting it plain and simple, this board and it's employees need to be changed.
But, of course it will not, because of the gutless way things are approached here.
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